You know, I really miss traveling. I don’t do a huge amount of it, but I try to get away every couple of years, and maybe make a trip to a relative’s house now and again. This year, of course, we’re all hemmed in and holed up, which for me means camping out in a little studio in Brooklyn with my counterpart and dog. It’s home, but it’s a little cramped, too.
So there is something very escapist about reading an epic fantasy full of travel across different lands and to different nations. I get all the enjoyment and excitement of the changing scenes without any of the discomfort of the heat and dust everyone in the series seems to currently be experiencing. This week, Rand and his Aiel are on the move, and we get to check in with both Egwene and Moiraine to see how they feel about everything that’s unfolding as He Who Comes With The Dawn prepares to leave the Waste. Then we’ll swing over to the border between Tarabon and Amadicia, where Nynaeve is alternately vexed and afraid, as per usual. More traveling by wagon, too.
But first, the recap.
Chapter 7 opens with Egwene trying to get her mare under control. Mist hasn’t been ridden for weeks, and Egwene isn’t looking forward to the journey west, the cold nights without the shelter of tents and the fact that she doesn’t really think that her Aiel skirts are designed for riding. She shares a smile with Amys—she managed to make it into the Wise One’s dreams after all, and they’d shared tea in the dream of Cold Rocks Hold. Egwene had found she was too excited about her achievement to resist looking at some other dreams, although she’d avoided Melaine and Bair’s, as the Wise Ones would have known at once if she entered there.
She’d tried to enter Rand’s dream, of course, only to find herself blocked. It was like running into a wall made of nothing and she’d been unable to dismantle it because she couldn’t find anything to work on. Still, she intends to keep worrying at the problem until she solves it.
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The Eye of the World: Book One of The Wheel of Time
Kadere’s dreams had been dark as well as lewd. Egwene avoids looking at him as she passes the long line of wagons that are filled up with the artifacts Moiraine has the man taking back to the White Tower. When she passes the area where the Maidens’ pack mules are being loaded by the gai’shain, she’s a little surprised to see Isendre laboring among them, dressed in a black robe instead of the gai’shain white. Egwene is glad the Maidens have at least put some clothes on her, but it seems unnecessarily cruel to put her in black under the torturous sun of the Waste. Still, she knows that the affairs of the Maidens are none of hers—as she had been roundly told by several of them. Egwene had been a little vexed that, while Aviendha and the others may respect her as an Aes Sedai, they don’t see her as a Wise One but merely as their pupil. Egwene spurs Mist on though, not wanting to think about Isendre’s dreams.
They had been nightmares of torture, of things being done to the woman that sent Egwene fleeing in horror, and with something dark and evil laughing as it watched her run. No wonder Isendre looked haggard. Egwene had started up out of her sleep so quickly that Cowinde had jumped back from laying a hand on her shoulder.
She catches sight of Rand, wearing the shoufa and blue silk coat with gold embroidery. The sight of it and his new Dragon belt buckle makes Egwene think that Rand really has begun to think well of himself—that and the sight of the gleeman in his even fancier outfit. She overhears some of what Rand is saying to the Aiel traders who are staying behind and realizes that he is having them sent to a stedding for Ogier to rebuild Rhuidean. Egwene approves of that, and of the fact that Rand is advising the Aiel to give the Ogier as much of a free hand as possible with their work.
Mat was already up on his gelding, Pips, with his wide-brimmed hat pulled down and the butt of that odd spear resting on his stirrup. As usual, his high-collared green coat looked slept in. She had avoided his dreams. One of the Maidens, a very tall golden-haired woman, gave Mat a roguish grin that seemed to embarrass him. And well it should; she was much too old for him. Egwene sniffed, I know very well what he was dreaming about, thank you very much! She only reined in beside him to look around for Aviendha.
Mat tells her, sounding impossibly pleased, that Rand told Moiraine to be quiet and stand aside until he had time for her, and she did as she was told. They can both see how furious Moiraine looks, and Egwene is tempted to embrace saidar and teach Mat a lesson about his smugness. Instead she sniffs disdainfully, which only seems to amuse Mat further. Still, Egwene is perplexed—Moiraine obeying Rand without question is like one of the Wise Ones obeying, or like the sun rising at midnight. She can’t imagine what would have produced such a reaction from Moiraine, and she doesn’t like not knowing.
Then Egwene spots Aviendha and rides over to her, watching as Aviendha turns her ivory bracelet over and over, apparently unconsciously. Egwene knows that that bracelet is somehow tied to the difficulty Aviendha is having with Rand, but she doesn’t understand how. She herself has a flame-carved ivory bracelet that Aviendha gave her as a gift, and Egwene gave Aviendha a silver necklace in return, to seal their bond as near-sisters. Egwene had to borrow money from Moiraine to purchase the necklace, but the pattern—Kadere said it was a Kandori pattern called snowflakes—had seemed a good gift for a woman who would never see snow. Although now Aviendha might, given that she is about to travel beyond the Dragonwall with Rand.
She asks if Aviendha is alright, and they discuss the request the Wise Ones made of Aviendha the night before. Egwene still thinks Aviendha is upset about sleeping in the same room as a man, while Aviendha can’t understand why the notion bothers Egwene. She insists that she is not afraid of Rand, or any man, but Egwene thinks of Aviendha’s dream in which she was running from a giant version of Rand, who slowly but inevitably was catching up to her no matter how fast she ran.
But you could not simply tell a friend that she was lying. Egwene’s face reddened slightly. Especially not when you would have to tell her how you knew. She would box my ears, then. I won’t do it again. Go rummaging about in people’s dreams. Not in Aviendha’s dreams, anyway. It was not right to spy on a friend’s dreams. Not that it was spying, exactly, but still….
Rand mounts, followed immediately by Natael, and one Aiel woman asks Rand if he means to leave the Three-Fold land for good. Silence falls after the question, and Rand is silent too, looking back at all the faces watching him. Then he says that while he hopes to return, he cannot say for sure if he will. But he will leave them something to remember him by.
He slips a hand into his pocket, and suddenly all of the still, empty fountains of Rhuidean spring to life, water flowing freely, to the stunned admiration of the Aiel. Egwene hears Rand say, apparently to himself, that he should have done that long ago. Egwene is struck anew by this reminder of who Rand is; it seems like every time he channels it’s like learning about it all over again. He’s still Rand, but Egwene was always taught growing up that the only thing more dangerous than the Dark One himself is a man who can channel.
She thinks perhaps Aviendha is right to be afraid of Rand, but when she looks down at Aviendha she sees only delight at the presence of so much water. Then Rand announces that it is time to depart, and turns his horse westward, Natael just behind and Aviendha falling in beside Rand’s stirrup.
Moiraine sits in her saddle atop Aldieb, watching Rand lead the column, Kadere passing in his wagon and nodding respectfully. Moiraine finds herself thinking that she should have made him take that wagon apart and fill it with artifacts from the square, as she’d had him do with the others. The man is scared enough of her, an Aes Sedai, that he would have done it. And Moiraine would have taken every single item back to the White Tower, if she could have.
For countless years the second test faced by an Aiel woman who wanted to be a Wise One had been to enter the array of glittering glass columns, seeing exactly what the men saw. More women survived it than men—Bair said it was because women were tougher, Amys that those too weak to survive were winnowed out before reaching that point—but it was not a certainty. Those who did survive were not marked. The Wise Ones claimed that only men needed visible signs; for a woman, to be alive was enough.
But the first test, taken before a Wise One initiate is given any training at all, is to step through one of three gray metal rings that are currently roped off where they stand in the square. Through that step, she would experience her life over and over again, in all its possible permutations. The mind can’t retain all that information, of course, so the details mostly blended together and faded away. But when a woman emerged from the rings she was left with a vague sense of things that might happen in her life, including things that must, and things that must not, happen.
Lan, looking down at her from atop Mandarb, tells her that he doesn’t like seeing her like this, and Moiraine can read the worry in his eyes. She realizes she has been sitting and staring a lot longer than she thought, and turns her horse to follow the wagons as she asks what Lan means.
“Worried,” he said bluntly, no readable expression on that stone-carved face now. “Afraid. I’ve never seen you afraid, not when we had Trollocs and Myrddraal swarming over us, not even when you learned the Forsaken were loose and Sammael was sitting almost on top of us. Is the end coming?”
Moiraine starts, then wishes she hadn’t. She tells Lan that a redbird in Seleisin knew as well as she when Tarmon Gai’don might come, but hopefully it will not as long as the seals remain unbroken. But Lan presses on, insisting that she, a woman he has seen wait patiently for weeks for one small scrap of information, has become impatient. And then he asks what possessed her to give such an oath to Rand.
Moiraine answers that Rand was pulling away from her, that she needed to make sure that he accepted her guidance, and would try anything short of sharing his bed to make it happen. Privately she thinks of how the rings had shown her that it might be something she considered in the future, and that it would be a disaster if she tried it. She can’t remember the specifics, but her mind retained only that much.
Lan remarks that it might help Moiraine’s humility grow if Rand tells her to fetch his slippers and light his pipe for him.
She stared at him. Could that be a joke? If so, it was not amusing. She had never found that humility served very well in any situation. Siuan claimed that growing up in the Sun Palace in Cairhien had put arrogance deeply into Moiraine’s bones, where she could not even see it—something she firmly denied—but for all that Siuan was a Tairen fisherman’s daughter, she could match any queen stare for stare, and to her arrogance meant opposition to her own plans.
Moiraine also thinks that Lan is changing, if he’s making jokes now. He has been her Warder for almost twenty years, and Moiraine has always known that he didn’t care much for his own life, valuing it only as much as it is useful to her. He had always denied having a heart, but Moiraine knows that he has found one, and given it to Nynaeve. Still, he denies the idea that they could ever be together, considering himself a man with no future but war and, eventually, death. But that last bit, at least, Moiraine has taken care of, though she can’t let him know about it yet. If he knew, he’d probably try to change it.
She responds to him that his own humility has withered in this dry land, and that she’ll have to find some water to make it grow again; Lan counters that she never lets his humility grow too dull. He wets a cloth for her to tie around her temples and she takes it silently.
The sun is rising behind them, and the long column of peddlers’ wagons and marching Aiel snakes up the mountain of Chaendaer and over its crest, down into the hilly flats on the other side. The air is so clear that Moiraine can see for miles; there are great natural arches and mountains rearing on all sides of them. The sun is baking everything like an oven.
A hard land that had shaped a hard people. But Lan was not the only one changing, or being changed. She wished she could see what Rand would make of the Aiel in the end. There was a long journey ahead for everyone.
Meanwhile, Nynaeve, Elayne, Thom and Juilin are also suffering in the heat as they travel by wagon from Tarabon into Amadicia. They have just escaped a horde of bandits under the cover of a dust storm Nynaeve’s anger whipped up. She and Elayne had both been surprised at the size of it, but even though Nynaeve can see how much her strength has increased, she still has the limitation of only being able to channel when she is angry.
Nynaeve is disguised as a merchant and they are riding in a merchant’s wagon—it, along with a deal of expensive jewelry, had been a gift from Amathera, ostensibly to thank them for their service, but Nynaeve expects it was also meant as a bribe to get them to leave Tanchico. Amathera had even been willing to buy them a ship, but no one in the docks had been willing to sell, and Nynaeve had felt that leaving by ship was too obvious, that the Black Ajah would find them there and ambush them. Still, she’s starting to regret the choice to take a wagon across lands torn by war and anarchy.
She climbs to the front of the wagon, over the barrels stored in it, to slide into the wagon seat beside Thom and Elayne. Nynaeve rather wants to give Elayne a thump over the way she’s behaving towards Thom, but she settles for tugging her braid and telling Thom it’s safe to slow the wagon down now. Thom does, with Elayne gushing about how wonderfully he drove, but Thom only points out that they have more company coming.
Ahead of them is an approaching column of Whitecloaks, perhaps fifty men in their shining armor, followed by wagons. Nynaeve finds herself worrying about the great serpent ring hanging under her dress from the cord that also holds Lan’s ring, and about the danger they would be in if the Whitecloaks saw any evidence that she and Elayne are Aes Sedai. But there is nothing to reveal them, and Elayne, Thom and Julian on his horse beside the wagon pass easily as no more than what they are trying to appear as.
Thom pulls the wagon over and a few Whitecloaks detach from the column to come over to them. Nynaeve greets them politely, trying to sound like the sort of person who would be relieved to see Whitecloaks and mentioning the bandits, but their leader cuts her off bruskly, remarking that few merchants are coming out of Tanchico these days and sending a man to inspect the barrels in the wagon. Nynaeve plays the part of a merchant concerned about her wares, hoping Elayne will keep quiet and not start telling the soldier off for his manners. Then they are grilled about the state of Tanchico and whether Andric was still on the throne when they left.
“Yes, Captain.” Obviously, rumor said someone had taken Tanchico and supplanted the King, and perhaps someone had. But who—one of the rebel lords who fought each other as hard as they did Andric, or the Dragonsworn who had pledged themselves to the Dragon Reborn without ever seeing him? “Andric was still King, and Amathera still Panarch, when we left.”
His eyes said she could be lying. “It is said the Tar Valon witches were involved. Did you see any Aes Sedai, or hear of them?”
Nynaeve assures him that they did not, all the while thinking of the ring hidden beneath her clothes and of the fact that a dust storm won’t help against so many well-armed and well-trained men. If she’s being honest with herself, she’s more scared than angry anyway. Desperate to change the subject, Nynaeve asks if they have crossed over into Amadicia yet, and the soldier begrudgingly tells her that it’s five miles east, for now. There is a garrison of the Children at the first town, Mardecin, and if they obey the law then all will be well.
“Have you come to move the border?” Elayne asked suddenly and coolly. Nynaeve could have strangled her.
The deep-set, suspicious eyes shifted to Elayne, and Nynaeve said hastily, “Forgive her, my Lord Captain. My eldest sister’s girl. She thinks she should have been born a lady, and she can’t keep away from the boys besides. That’s why her mother sent her to me.” Elayne’s indignant gasp was perfect. It was also probably quite real. Nynaeve supposed she had not needed to add that about boys, but it seemed to fit.
The man looks them over for a moment, then tells them that the Lord Captain Commander sends food into Tarabon, to keep “Taraboner vermin” from coming over the borders and “stealing anything they could chew.” He bids them to walk in the Light and then leaves.
Thom gets the wagon moving immediately, but they all sit quietly until they are past the column, at which point Nynaeve rounds on Elayne, demanding to know what she thought she was doing and pointing out that they aren’t in Morgase’s throne room. Elayne counters that Nynaeve was groveling, that merchants don’t have to be lickspittles. Nynaeve tells her that they don’t look down their noses at fifty Whitecloak lances either.
“Why did you tell him I could not keep away from boys? There was no need for that, Nynaeve!”
“I was ready to tell him anything that would make him go away and leave us alone! And you—!”
“Both of you shut up,” Thom barked suddenly, “before they come back to see which of you is murdering the other.”
Nynaeve looks behind, assuring herself that the Whitecloaks are too far away to actually hear them, while Elayne immediately snuggles into Thom again, apologizing. Juilin, wisely, keeps his distance.
They pass the border, marked by a stone pillar on either side of the road, and reach Mardecin well before noon. It’s a lot bigger than its name suggests, and Nynaeve observes that they need to buy supplies. She intends for them to do so quickly and cover a lot more ground before nightfall, but Thom counters that they are wearing out, traveling from dawn to dusk every day for nearly a month. Nynaeve privately thinks that Thom just wants a chance to play his flute and harp in a common room somewhere, but Juilin adds his voice, saying that he’d very much like to spend a little time out of the saddle, and Elayne joins in to say that she’s tired of sleeping under the wagon and would really like to sleep in an inn instead. She adds that she’d love to hear Thom tell stories in the common room, irking Nynaeve further.
Nynaeve tells them that merchants with only one wagon can’t afford to stay at inns in towns like this, though she doesn’t really know if this is true or not, but she compromises, telling them to find a place to camp. Still, she is now fervently wishing she had insisted on a ship instead—in a Sea Folk raker with a channeling Windfinder, they could have gotten to Tear in a third of the time, and as friends of Rand they’d easily have gotten a carriage from the Tairen. They could be in Tar Valon by now.
For a pair of chapters that are about people on the move, there is an intense, even tangible sense of impatience in this section. From Egwene’s frustration over not having answers, to Moiraine’s anxiety about her time with Rand running out, to Nynaeve’s restless musings over whether or not she should have taken a ship out of Tarabon instead of the wagon, the sense of urgency is high despite the fact that things are finally moving, literally. It’s a reminder for me that traveling by horse and wagon, especially in the heat of summer or the Waste, isn’t as pleasant for our heroes to experience as it is for me to read about in the chill October air while sipping my coffee.
I continue to enjoy getting the sections from Egwene’s point of view, and I was struck this week by her strong self-awareness. Other characters have observed how she always does things the “right” way, how stubborn she is, and how she throws herself fully into any task she chooses to undertake. But here we have several instances of Egwene observing her own behavior. She acknowledges that she doesn’t like not understanding things, and we see her certainty that she can eventually figure out how to solve Aviendha’s difficulty with Rand. When she’s thinking about her determination to figure out what was blocking her from Rand’s dreams, she even considers herself to be as “persistent as a badger.”
That doesn’t mean she recognizes any of the flaws in her determination, however. There is something deeply invasive about going into someone else’s dreams without permission—it is understood that the Wise Ones do this as a way of communicating messages, but in that case consent to such an intrusion is at least implied, since this is an established custom. Also, when a Wise One delivers a message she isn’t concealing her presence or her intent, while Egwene’s trips into other people’s dreams are merely for her own pleasure and entirely a secret. I’m not saying she deserves what she saw in Kadere and Isendre’s dreams but… she did go prying into other people’s minds.
I actually feel for Isendre. I know she’s a Darkfriend, and maybe she has done terrible things. But as it stands, she isn’t a very fleshed out character and she seemed to have been the least powerful and influential of the Darkfriends of Kadere’s party. Rand isn’t warning anybody about her dangerous eyes, after all, even if he did consider that she might be Lanfear in disguise. All we really know about Isendre other than the very harsh treatment she is receiving is that she is a bit of a thief and kind of slutty. I can’t interfere with the business of Far Dareis Mai any more than Egwene or Rand can. But I don’t set the kind of store by personal property the Maidens do (or maybe it’s the insult, more than the items themselves, that the Aiel care about?) so their choice of punishment seems awfully severe to me. And while the narrative wants to judge ladies who are too sexually forward, I certainly don’t, so it’s hard to continue watching her suffer like this. Knowing the pain and fear of her dreams just makes it that much worse.
Rand’s world is a brutal one in many respects, and it’s not just the Aiel who give out that kind of punishment. After all, we saw what happened to Siuan, Leane, and Min, as well as how much worse it could have been for them. There is the cruelty of the Children of the Light with their zealotry and black and white thinking, the cruelty of the White Tower and its corporeal discipline. But Egwene’s trespass reminds me of a different harshness in the world of The Wheel of Time—that of those with power towards those who don’t have it.
We have been told from the start that Aes Sedai are power-hungry, that they see themselves as better than others, and while some of this is fear mongering and distrust born from the Breaking, a lot of it is true, too. The Aes Sedai certainly think they know better than others in most respects and act accordingly; the whole conspiracy about the White Tower as puppet master isn’t entirely unfounded, and they aren’t only doing it in the name of Tarmon Gai’don and the battle for the Light, either. But more than that, there is the suggestion that the One Power itself makes a person ever more hungry for it, that channelers have to fight the impulse to draw more power than they can handle. We’ve also seen the way Egwene and Nynaeve, especially, are quick to use a bit of power to lash out at someone, or at least are tempted to, knowing that person couldn’t fight back on an even playing field. Even with Rand, who can channel in turn, Egwene had intended not to let him know that she was the one who smacked him with saidar, and someone like Mat would be helpless if she ever decided to teach him “a lesson right there in front of everybody.”
And Egwene doesn’t seem to consider for a moment that it might be unethical to invade someone else’s dreams without permission, even just to look. The Wise Ones don’t either, as far as I can tell. It’s almost as if she feels entitled to it, just by virtue of the fact that she has the ability to do it. But she doesn’t always understand what she sees, either—she didn’t interpret Aviendha’s dream of Rand correctly, for example. And I’m willing to bet Mat wouldn’t have been dreaming of what Egwene assumes. She may be getting more powerful all the time, but like the Wise Ones say, she still has a great deal to learn.
The block she encountered trying to enter Rand’s dream reminded me of the way Lanfear was able to pick apart Rand’s weaves. Despite not being able to perceive the flows, since they were made with saidin, Lanfear must have known what flows were used in the weave, and so was able to affect them even without perceiving them. That is a highly impressive skill, and I wonder how difficult it would be for Egwene, or any of the modern Aes Sedai, to figure out how to interact with Rand’s channeling this way. Presumably in the Age of Legends, this was how all the great works of collaboration were done: Male and female Aes Sedai knew exactly what the others were doing and so could interact with and complement each other’s channeling without being able to actually see or sense what the other half was doing.
And Egwene and Aviendha are near-sisters now. One of my favorite things about Aiel society is how many types of familial bonds there are, and that there doesn’t appear to be any more significance or importance given to actual bonds of blood lineage than to those that are chosen connections. Adoption appears to be this way as well, based on the little we have learned about how the child of a maiden is placed by the Wise Ones with a new family. There is secrecy around the placement, but the suggestion seems to be that this has more to do with the mother giving up all connection to her child, as she cannot keep that connection and remain married to the spear. Even the sister-wife bond carries a legal and social implication outside of the women’s relationship to their husband.
Now that we’ve learned about Moiraine’s trip through the metal rings, we know a little more about what Aviendha might be struggling with. The rings show all possible directions your life might take, so it’s possible that Aviendha not only saw that she was fated to marry Rand, but perhaps also saw a variety of painful outcomes if she refused to marry him, or even if she did marry him. Perhaps marrying is both necessary and brings suffering. We can see that it’s more complicated for her than it is for Min, even outside of the fact that Aviendha loses her last connection to being a Maiden by marrying someone, even outside of the the fact that she feels she is betraying Elayne by being a romantic prospect for Rand.
I can’t help thinking about how Aviendha’s situation is an exaggerated, fantasy version of the way compulsive matrimony affects women in our own world. So much of Aviendha’s life is outside of her control at this point: Her fate has been decided by the fact that she can channel and now by the arrival of He Who Comes With The Dawn. She has already given up the life of a Maiden, which she loved, but being bound to someone in this way is more than just duty, it is a deeply personal experience. And it may be that the reason for Aviendha, Min, and Elayne’s romantic connections to Rand are compelled by the Pattern, by his ta’veren nature. Even their feelings of love may be a product of that power, rather than genuine to themselves—indeed, Elayne is the only one who really seems to come by it honestly and naturally. Min seems to have come to love him mainly because she knows that she is fated too—her visions always come true, after all.
And Aviendha may have been developing natural feelings for Rand back when she was still Far Dareis Mai, but at this point it seems unlikely that she would welcome such emotions even if she hadn’t traveled through the rings and learned that she had no choice in whom she would love and be with. It’s hard, at least right now, not to feel like Aviendha and Min are anything more than tools to the Pattern and the fate of the Dragon. Maybe Elayne too. It’s kind of like that fan theory that Anakin and Padmé were drawn together by the Force (or maybe by Palpetine) rather than their own natural inclination.
Rand’s girlfriends aren’t the only tools in the hands of the pattern, of course. Mat can’t leave Rand’s side either, as much as he wants to. Still, at least he’s allowed to have his own feelings about the matter, and he isn’t compelled to become romantically entangled with someone against his will.
Speaking of Elayne, it looks like she has gotten over the fact that her mother had a boyfriend and has moved on to cozying up to the man whose mustaches she used to pull. Nynaeve’s reaction to Elayne’s attentions to Thom was hilarious, given that we know the reasons for it and Nynaeve does not. I’ve always enjoyed Nynaeve’s observations and thoughts; she can be really annoying when she gets stuck on certain vexations or vendettas against Moiraine and the Tower, but she’s also quite sharp, and even her annoyed thoughts are pretty funny. Like when she thinks that Juilin’s hat looks like he’s wearing a cake on his head. Or when she goes back and forth about whether or not she should have gotten them a ship after all.
I also appreciated Nynaeve’s level-headedness in the face of the Whitecloaks. For all that she can be haughty and self-important, Nynaeve is very focused and goal driven. It was interesting to see her handle the Whitecloaks so differently from how Elayne was willing to. I don’t really think Elayne’s concern was that Nynaeve would come off as too deferential, and therefore suspicious—of course Elayne hates Whitecloaks, not just as an Aes Sedai but also as her mother’s daughter. We know what the situation was like in Caemlyn when Rand and Mat arrived back in The Eye of the World, the strife that existed between the Whitecloaks and Morgase, and the division in the city that resulted. Of course Elayne wouldn’t want to grovel before them, even in disguise.
The difference between Elayne and Nynaeve’s approaches here matches with that little aside about Siuan’s observations about Moiraine’s upbringing, how it had put arrogance deep into her bones. I think Moiraine’s right in observing that Siuan is no less full of pride than she is—but that doesn’t mean they carry their pride the same way. Similarly, Elayne is much more even-tempered and flexible than Nynaeve, generally speaking, but in this moment we see her struggling with that palace-bred hauteur, whereas Nynaeve is capable in this moment of looking past her own fear and hostility and doing what needs to be done. I see a lot of similarities in Nynaeve and Siuan right now, in their stubbornness and their willingness to put their cause before all else.
But let’s get back to Moiraine for a second, because her conversation with Lan was my favorite part of this section. I enjoyed the reminder of who they used to be before we met them in The Eye of the World, and the traded comments about humility reminded me of the story of how they met and threw each other into ponds. They are both so stoic within the narrative, experienced and patient, and even more so in comparison to all the young hotheads from Emond’s Field. In this moment, I was reminded that they are both of royal blood, and that they share a sense of duty that is affected by their heritage. Lan’s kingdom was lost when he was an infant, and he carries a particularly painful and burdensome sense of duty that can’t be fulfilled, since it belongs to a country that no longer exists. Moiraine carries some of the dignity and arrogance of her upbringing, but she forsook that life to dedicate everything to the White Tower and to the fight against the Dark One. I agree with Lan that Moiraine should not have had to make the sacrifice she made to Rand, even as I agree with her that it was probably the right move.
I find myself wishing they could be happy. I don’t know what fate lies in store for Moiraine, though she clearly sees a grim one that probably involves her death. I don’t really know what lies in store for Lan, either, although there is more light there, knowing what Moiraine has arranged to happen for him if she dies. There is a deep feeling of love between them in this segment, I think, in the way she observes the changes in Lan and in the way his protectiveness manifests itself in a moment when he can’t actually do anything to protect her.
So yeah, I’m worried about them. And I’m worried about Aviendha too. Duty is heavier than a mountain, as Lan would say, but I’m holding out hope for a little easing of their hearts, even if their work remains heavy to the point of near impossibility.
I’ll be taking next week off over the holiday weekend, so we will resume the Read on the 20th as we get into Chapters 9 and 10. I can’t wait to see what mischief Elayne and Nynaeve are going to get themselves into this time; I really hope they find out about the White Tower coup somehow before they actually get there! It’s been agony knowing what I know, while watching Moiraine fret over getting the Rhuidean artifacts back to the White Tower, and watching Nynaeve and Elayne’s hurry to get back to deliver the seal they found and to get new orders from Siuan. Robert Jordan why do you do this to me, specifically?
Sylas K Barrett got a little nostalgic, reading about those mountains and the clear air of the Waste. He’d love to go for a good hike, though preferably somewhere not quite so hot.
while the narrative wants to judge ladies who are too sexually forward
Not really the narrative, just some of the cultures within it. The Aiel have no compunctions whatsoever about it, the Two Rivers folks most assuredly do, and a few cultures we have yet to meet are even more freewheeling in such matters.
“and he isn’t compelled to become romantically entangled with someone against his will.”
Does the name “Daughter of the Nine Moons” mean anything to you?
@1 – My thoughts exactly. I firmly stand by the fact that the Aiel don’t care whatsoever about Isendre’s behavior aside from her stealing from them and the offense she provided to the Maidens. Nudity to them is a part of their physical punishment, they have no cultural bias of embarrassment regarding a lack of clothes. I don’t know why that so frequently gets ignored or overlooked when this is clearly outlined multiple times in the narrative by the actions and individual thoughts of various Aiel. I seem to recall later in the PLOD that the Shaido Wise Ones finally come to understand public nudity as a fantastic way to shame Wetlanders and begin using it in that manner.
@2 – I was about to point out the same thing while laughing manically!
I was also a bit surprised that Sylas made no real comment on Moiraine’s musings about hopping in the sack with Rand. I think the first time I read this book I was probably as shocked by her revelation as she herself was!
Lan and Moiraine are deeply worried about each other. Thanks to their bond each can feel the other changing from the person they have known and fought beside for twenty years. Lan has fallen in love, an unwelcome to him development in his death directed life. Moiraine has faced the fact she has no control of how events will develop and doesn’t even know how they should develop. Congratulations Moiraine, recognizing your ignorance is the first step to true wisdom. She is also facing her own mortality and is deeply concerned not just for Rand but Lan. She has taken questionable means to make sure he survives her, but rather touchingly, she is determined to save him for Nynaeve. She wants him to have that much happiness before the End. She is also, as we learn, frantically determined to give Rand all the knowledge she can even as her time runs out, finally recognizing that her role is that of teacher not controller.
Little Eggy has problems with boundaries and she can’t resist the challenge of Rand’s barrier. On the other hand dipping into two Darkfriends’ dreams and Aviendha’s nightmare seems to have taught her caution.
Mat gets no respect from the supergirls ever but despite his reputation Melindhra is probably his first real sexual relationship, in the Stone he’s still thinking in terms of kisses and cuddles.
If Isendre was the nothing more than the sex kitten she appears to be and if Rand was receptive to her advances the Maidens might just sniff at his taste and look the other way. But Rand has made his disinterest in Isendre clear and his intentions towards their former sister Aviendha even clearer. The Maidens resent Isendre’s continued harrassment of Rand and have the deepest suspicion of her motives. Quite rightly as it happens. Add in her supposed thefts and this is not a woman they want anywhere near their First Brother.
And that is what I would call one of the three main themes of the series.
Don’t say things like that while I’m drinking!
Sylas thinks the Maidens are being too hard on Isendre – but thievery was a HANGING offense in England well into the 18th century, and in many other ancient cultures. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Code
I’m with Sylas. I love reading travelogues. The more travel in my fantasy, the better; many of my favorite stories are mostly or entirely set on long physical journeys. Except death marches through deserts. Those can get really tedious to read, especially when they happen repeatedly in the same story.
The idea of being shown all of your possible futures, every resulf of every decision, is daunting. I habitually obsess over every big and little decision I make, and I’m not sure if such an experience would lessen or increase this anxiety. Knowing the outcomes of decisions in advance might render them easier to make, but the experience would underscore how impactful any decision can be. Though I sometimes know that already. For example, I’m typing this comment here on Tor because I checked out a Harry Potter quiz night at a local coffeehouse in 2012.
In Juilin’s portrait on the WoT Wiki, his hat looks like a small fez with a base a bit wider than the top. In his portrait on Encyclopaedia-WoT, it looks more like a somewhat flattened version of a so-called “Asian conical hat.” Neither interpretation looks very much like a cake to me, though the former does more than the latter. Mind you, when I think of weird cake-like hats, I think happily of the spectacular one worn by Tycho Nestoris the Badass Banker of Braavos in A Song of Ice and Fire.
I would argue that Egwene clearly knows that peeking into people’s dreams without their consent and knowledge is wrong, but she does what a lot of people do and convinces herself that it’s mostly harmless, so why not continue? It’s an all-too-common human failing.
As for Isendre, she is under orders to seduce Rand. Whatever her true proclivities, she has little choice in persisting. (Now that I’ve typed that, I realize that the scene I’m thinking of where it’s definitely confirmed that she’s been ordered to seduce Rand hasn’t happened yet; was there an earlier scene that hinted at/confirmed it?)
@2 et al – The significance of that line probably hasn’t been made clear to Sylas yet, it’s been mentioned only twice and doesn’t really become anything more than a weird Mat paranoia until much later.
@3 – yeah, the Shaido finally notice that in Malden and go absolutely apeshit with it.
@@.-@ – yeah, the Maidens wouldn’t give a shit if Rand had been receptive to Isendre’s advances, but her continued harassment pissed them off.
@7 – I don’t think the rings show all possible futures, just significant turning points and possible outcomes of different choices made at them.
@8 – I don’t think it’s been made clear yet, and maybe only very obliquely hinted at, but anybody who’s been reading fairly closely up to this point has enough info on how Darkfriends, and especially Forsaken, operate to conclude that Isendre has been ordered by Lanfear to seduce Rand.
@9: From this chapters reference to Moiraine’s experience: “Her future spread out before her, all of the possible futures based on every decision she might make for the rest of her life.”
*Even with Rand, who can channel in turn, Egwene had intended not to let him know that she was the one who smacked him with saidar, and someone like Mat would be helpless if she ever decided to teach him “a lesson right there in front of everybody.”*
This made me laugh. I assume Sylas glossed right over Moiraine’s reaction over attempting to heal Mat a few pages ago. Well, the significance of the medallion will be made clear soon enough.
@2. You are right on point with your assessment. Far Dareis Mai has never been more protective over a single individual than they now are over Rand, and if he’s made it clear his heart belongs to Aviendha……Isendre’s lucky she isn’t already dead. I can only guess they’ve kept her alive because they know how upset Rand would be. A fine tangle. It’s almost a mercy for her regarding her final fate.
@3. I’m glad I’m not the only one who saw Moiraine contemplating sharing Rand’s bed as a huge red flag that things could be that desperate for Big Mo.
@9 no way that order came from Lanfear. Trying to obey that order is the reason Lanfear’s dream-torturing her.
Nynaeve is my least favorite character in WoT. Further, Elayne is in my top five WoT chracters. Nevertheless, Elayne was beyond wrong in her tone and question to the Witecloaks. Elayne should have known better than to even ask the question about the borders. It was likely to raise the hackles of the WhiteCloak and have him abuse his authority even more. What would have happended had he discovered all the jewlery that they had hidden? Asking that question with the tone she used was almost an open invitation for the Whiteclaoks to take drastic measures (arrest then for being Darkfirends, perhaps). In this one instance, Nynaeve was justified in being vexed at Elayne’s actions.
olethos6 @9. Lanfear did not order Isendre to seduce Rand. She did not want Rand to be with anyone other than herself. Remmber how she skinned Kadere alive when Kadere told Lanfear that he guessed that Aviendha was sleeping with Rand. Also, Isendre tells Kadere that she cannot seduce Rand. She tried everything but he wants nothing to do with Isendre. I think it was Isendre who told Kadere that Aviendha was sleeping with Rand. I suspect Isendre said that based on how they acted around each other and by the fact that a heterosexual man turned down Isendre. I got the impression that Kadere ordered Isendre to try to seduce Rand.
Thanks for reading my musings.
AndrewHB
Kadere is the one who ordered Isendre to seduce Rand. She tells him it’s impossible because he’s bedding Avheindha.
Egwene pokes around in other people’s dreams without their permission for two reasons:
1. because she can
2. because it advances her goals
Pretty much why she does anything.
@@@@@ all y’all – crap, you’re right, it was Kadere, not Lanfear. Either way, it should be obvious that Isendre isn’t just trying to bang Rand of her own free will.
Regarding the Maidens’ punishment of Isendre, the Maidens are not that attached to personal property as the author smugly asserts. For Aiel women a jewelry collection is personal and meaningful. You don’t just buy things because you can, you get them as gifts, and build up your collection over time. Also in stealing from them Isendre violated a trust. In the Waste, you have to cooperate to survive. You can’t cooperate with people you can’t trust, hence the importance of ji’e’toh and keeping one’s word. Someone who meets all their toh is someone you can trust to pull their weight. Isendre not only stole, she did so as a guest in the Three Fold Land, and she came in the company of a couple of peddlers and a gleeman. If they can’t trust the entourages of such people, how can they let them into the Waste? How can they retain the services they value in such people. It’s not just the loss of material wealth, it’s the profound violation of their understanding of society.
The Aiel are not slut-shaming her, either. They don’t have the same nudity taboos as wetlanders, so nudity does not necessarily have a sexual connotation. To the extent that they are punishing her for that sort of thing, it’s very specific. She is not being punished for sex, but for trying to seduce Rand, whom they see as spoken for. To the Maidens, Rand has publicly expressed an interest in Aviendha and obtained their approval. For Aviendha, Elayne has committed to marrying Rand, therefore he is off the market (she said she wants to, and Aiel always do what they say; by Aviendha’s understanding, Elayne is engaged). What’s more he is a chief, and a chief’s wife is the internal leader of community, so subverting the affections of the chief is a matter of public policy, not unlike election tampering. And with Rand in particular, it becomes personal, because to the Maidens & Aviendha, there is an understanding, which Isendre is trying to disrupt for what they can only see as selfish reasons.
RE: Egwene and her snooping in people’s dreams.
While I do not give her a pass at all for her behavior as it is extremely invasive I do also recognize that we’re talking about a girl who at this time in the series is either 17 or 18 and who among us hasn’t made very stupid, inconsiderate decisions at that point in our lives? What she is doing is the fantasy equivalent of reading someone’s diary. I don’t think this equates to a total and permanent flaw of character for Egwene as I feel like some of the Egwene haters like to feel it is.
Is it bad? Sure. It is immature and inconsiderate? Definitely. Is it something you can believe that just about any teenager would do without considering how much of a personal violation it would be? You betcha.
@7
Because I somehow remember details like this… Juilin’s Asian conical hat is what he wore when we first met him in TDR. It’s a Tairen-style hat. The fez is a new, Taraboner style that he picked up while in Tanchico.
Agreed with all the others about how the focus on nudity (and even the stealing) is kind of missing the point regarding the Aiel’s values. The Aiel don’t really appear to have any sexual taboos at all when it comes to sleeping around.
I actually totally skimmed over the part about Mat and not being bound to love anybody lmao.
Ooh that Star Wars fan theory. I’d like to think Anakin and Padme have a tad bit more agency than that but I do think their relationship is dysfunctional (Anakin has mommy issues, and Padme is a fixer – there’s a few deleted scenes that actually kind of hammer this home). I DO think that a lot of Anakin’s fears (and possibly even his visions) were stoked by Palpatine.
@19 – I have to strongly disagree with your stance here. Stepping into people’s minds, their innermost hopes/fears/kinks/thoughts feels much more akin to rape or sexual assault. It’s an extreme violation that can’t really be categorized as “poor judgement”. The logic that she’s just 17 or 18 really doesn’t justify the behavior.
I’m also on board with the majority of the commenters on the nudity taboo and slut shaming. And want to point out that we had Mat nude on screen just a couple chapters ago without a single comment on Jordan’s nudity fetish (not that I’m arguing Jordan didn’t have one, just thought it was an interesting comment on our own focuses)
@22:
I think the vast majority of humans, if they had the ability to peek on people’s dreams and not get caught, would do so at least once. Especially teenagers. Just like if they had the power of invisibility. How many teenage boys would use that power to sneak a peek of a naked woman? Almost all of them.
Is it wrong? Absolutely. Unquestionably. And just the same, the vast majority of people would do it at least once. Can the same be said of rape, or sexual assault? Would most people do it if they knew they wouldn’t get caught? Would half of people do it? Would 1/3?
Right is right, and wrong is wrong. But when you start saying how wrong something is, you’ve drifted into areas that are determined by culture. And there is no way that our culture would consider peeking into someone’s dreams as equivalent to sexual assault.
I’m reminded of something I heard in a John Mulaney special:
Obviously, I don’t condone the use of either word, but the point stands pretty clearly. Society is just now starting to decide that we don’t want our kids saying some of these words. Their relative badness is transparently not equal, however.
Similarly, spying on someone is no where near as bad as raping them, in our cultural context, regardless of the vehicle used to spy. Forcing someone to experience something in that dream? Now you’re getting closer to rape. But just observing? Bad, but not rape bad.
Regardless of what we say is bad, out actions as a society speak much louder than our words — and we don’t yet consider such things to be equal.
@@@@@ 23. I agree with you that what Egwene was doing can not be compared to rape. But I also don’t think sneaking a peek at a friend’s diary or using invisibility to get into the girls locker room are good analogies either. It comes down to motivation. If your teenage boy with invisibility used it to peep at naked girls in their locker room not just out of curiosity because he could, but as a manifestation of continually exceeding any and all boundaries that limited what he wanted to do, then we are entering Egwene territory.
@24:
As someone who isn’t a fan of boundaries in learning, or holding people back, I tend to side with Egwene on that one. Learning boundaries are mostly artificial and exist to protect the teacher more than the student. It’s less that the danger isn’t real, and more that we systematically hold people back in our society, and fear those who are beyond us. I’ve just experienced too many “teachers” and “leaders” who fall into that pattern to not have sympathy for Egwene, the ultimate over-achiever whose pace of growth freaks out her mentors.
@25. But with Egwene it goes beyond learning. She chafes at any boundaries. She reminds me a little of my 18 year old grandchild, who is brilliant but is on the spectrum and so simply doesn’t get that doing what he wants can sometimes have a negative emotional impact to others. The difference is once you explain to my grandchild that he shouldn’t push ahead and do thus and so because other people don’t always like it, he makes an effort to not do it again even if he doesn’t understand why.
Egwene does not. Her “ultimate overachieving” is far more important than mundane considerations like how others might view her negatively.
Um, as a woman, I would way, way, way, way rather have somebody look into my dreams than rape me.
They are not the same. (At least not to me – I can’t speak for everybody).
I mean, of course it’s horrible, and it also depends on why, and what you do with that information (I’m sure there ARE people who could use that information in ways that are just as traumatizing or hurtful as rape, or to gaslight/manipulate, or who actively harms/manipulates their thoughts IN the dram).
But I definitely agree about the general boundary discussions. She shouldn’t be doing it regardless, because it’s a violation of privacy.
@25, @26
As is often the case with in WOT, both sides of the learning debate with Egwene (“must push past boundaries at any cost” vs. “you’ll shoot your eye out, kid”)… were ultimately right. Her overachieving saved the world. And it also cost her.
There’s a combination of reading too much into and not being forgiving enough of, Egwene’s actions and motivations because of how respective readers seem to perceive how often she was demonstrably mistaken about, or proven wrong by the 3 Ta’veren.
Rand, Perrin and especially Mat put themselves on the line to correct mistakes Egwene’s overestimated sense of self resulted in, mistakes that put her and her companions in mortal danger.
That is not to say I don’t appreciate the mastery displayed by RJ in creating the narrative precipice that Egwene ultimately succumbs to. It makes me appreciate her successes all the more because she achieves them, both through her immense capacity to learn and apply that knowledge, and despite her ability to circumvent, override, or outshine any mentor’s capacity to guide her hunger for it.
While comparing Egwene’s specific actions and unrepentant reflections on them, with rape or sexual assault is imo, stretching the point paper thin, dismissing them as ‘youthful indiscretions’ ignores the narrative’s obvious highlighting of her sociopathic inclinations when it came to learning.
I think the narrative clearly indicates through Egwene, how addictive power can be, even to those who achieve it through the prism of learning and self-improvement. Unlike the other heroes of the story, she always had the agency to achieve success & power more conventionally, but mistakenly chose to impose herself on situations she and those in her wake were unprepared for and repeatedly failed in.
That she and they learned and eventually succeeded to a point, reveals just how strong a character they all had, but also that Egwene’s reflections above aren’t wrong because they are somehow immoral, but because they are incomplete. And in a sociopathically completist learner, acting against advice while defying all norms of guidance & inexperience, that should help you harness your thirst for knowledge that isn’t necessary to anyone but you, can be harmful in a wider narrative context.
To me, that is why Egwene’s conclusion is such a successful realisation of her entire journey. She burned out gloriously, a complete antithesis to the analogous journey that ended in the very first Prologue of WoT. Unlike Lews Therin Telamon, she found a way to sacrifice herself constructively before she was consumed by her faults & failures, and/or irreversibly damaged her world and those she loved.
That doesn’t mean her transgressions are mitigated by societal whataboutism, or exacerbated by frustrated criticism. Like most of us, the narrative success of Egwene happens both because of who she is and within the symphony of emotions and reactions that engenders in others.
Regarding Isendre, slut shaming and the Maidens. The Madiens are not punishing Isendre because she is trying to seduce Rand into sleeping with her, rather it’s because she has been explicitly told NOT to yet has continued to try despite the many punishments that has cost her. The disobedience is the overarching crime.
I notice all the time that people bring up in defense of Egwene’s transgressions or excesses “she’s only a teenager.” Which would be a sort of acceptable argument, except for the fact that it’s diametrically opposed to Egwene’s position. Egwene’s position from day on is that she’s an adult, damnit, and no one better try telling her what to do (which is, ironically, a very childish perspective on adulthood). Fine, Egwene’s a teenager. Well, guess what. Teenagers don’t get to snap back at 25-year-olds who have twice helped to rescue them from captivity, who have years of experience in an adult role. Teenagers don’t get to demand they come along on a military expedition, while telling the commander of that expedition he has no right to give her orders. Teenagers don’t get to subvert the rule of an elected legislature to be trusted with dictatorial powers. Egwene’s story and the choices she makes demand that she be judged by adult standards. Otherwise the mere teenager should stick to being seen and not heard, like all good children.
Oh, I forgot to mention this in my prior post – the myth of Egwene, the knowledge-hungry student. Doesn’t track. Egwene actually wants power. She has little respect for knowledge or for other people’s attempts or chances to get it. When Elyas tells her he can’t teach her to talk to wolves, she is done with him, and screw Perrin’s potential, they are leaving Elyas and heading straight for Tar Valon. She was neither interested in, nor tolerant of Nynaeve’s attempts to, learn from Mother Guenna. In fact, she questioned Nynaeve’s interest, claiming that the knowledge had no use for Nynaeve, as she was no longer a Wisdom. It does not mean medical knowledge is to be despised, even for someone who has access to Healing weaves, but Egwene can only see that Mother Guenna’s knowledge won’t get Nynaeve a promotion, so why bother with it? Then on Chaendar, Egwene keeps interrupting Moiraine’s questioning of the Wise Ones, to bring the focus back to her and her interests. Moiraine is revealing a lot of interesting details about the Aiel, dreaming and hints at Rand’s fate, but Egwene doesn’t care, because it’s not increasing her power. That’s what Egwene cares about, not knowledge.
I love how Egwene looks at Rand and says he’s getting a big head because of the clothes he wears. Shortly before or after this, Egwene is bemoaning the fact that even though the wise ones believe she’s a full Aes Sedai, they won’t treat her as an equal. The Dragon and Chief of Chiefs wearing clothes that reflect and project the powerful position he does in fact occupy? Big headed arrogance. Egwene pretending to hold a position she has no claim on and then being unhappy she doesn’t get the respect she feels that position is owed? Well, that’s just good common sense.
It’s nice how the text draws attention to her hypocrisy and failings with some degree of subtlety here.
@27 – You are entitled to that opinion, and I imagine you’re not alone (among women or survivors). But as someone who has been raped, I wrote what I did not as whataboutism, but because it felt akin to my own experiences. I’m still considering if I’ll just skip the comment section here during the Tylin chapters, or the scene with Morgase and Valda. Those bits from Leigh’s re-read were a mix.
I’m willing to accept that I may have let my feelings drive my response, though I think the part that was specifically triggering was her attempt to get past Rand’s defenses. That’s not wandering into a place accidentally. And the intimacy of someone entering my mind is much more terrifying to me than just peeping or reading a diary. I suppose it’s the difference between forced physical intimacy versus emotional or mental, and each of us will weight those 3 violations differently.
@23 – I wish I could say I thought that “not getting caught” actually made those two things different. :( At least from experience
As far as the dream spying goes… on it’s face it doesn’t seem as bad as physical rape, the problem is that the context in which Egwene thinks about it and how she uses it in the future makes it much worse. Reading your sibling’s diary once, or peeping on a dream once or twice, is one thing. One of the reasons Egwene gains as much power as she does over the story (which is her ultimate aim, as someone else said, not knowledge) is because she’s willing to continually spy on the dreams of friend and foe alike, and to use the knowledge she finds there to manipulate people. Or, frankly, to resent them. Could there be an bigger invasion of privacy than to have the sanctity of your own thoughts invaded, plundered, and used against you? That actually sounds quite a bit like rape to me.
Re: using dreams to invade thoughts. My dreams mostly make little or no sense – even to me. Maybe a skillful Freudian could interpret my base fears, hopes, plans, etc., but these do not appear obvious on the dream’s surface! I simply do not think it is realistic to think that anyone “viewing” the content of my dreams could decipher what I am planning or what my conscious thoughts on a problem would be.
Egwene = Mierin/Lanfear
I had not put it together until now.. I wonder how long it would have been before that was what Egwene became.. all in the name of the good and her own desire for power. Would she have come to resent Elayne? Aviendah? Min? see them as rivals instead of friends? It seems like she was already on that road whether anyone saw it or not.
@@@@@ 36 – That’s fine in the real world, but Egwene can interpret dreams. And by the way, my guess is plenty of your dreams are pretty easily interpreted. Attractive person from work/school/etc in there? Well, that’s good information for someone to manipulate. So on and so forth. Know what my nightmares consist of? Well there you go, now I know a good way to frighten you.
Our thoughts are the most intimate preserve we have, far more so (in my opinion) than our bodies, which are visible and we share on a regular basis. One of the most distateful parts of totalitarian regimes, or the concept of god, for that matter, is the idea of thought crime – that you can be prosecuted on the basis of thoughts and not actions. So I think the idea that someone can violate the sanctity of that space and use what they find there against you to be absolutely horrific. Far more so than any of the “Dark One wins” scenarios that we are given a glimpse into. One of my major problems with Egwene is that she treats other people, their very personhood, as disposable assets to assist her rise in power. She binds people to her with the Three Oaths, she constantly belittles anyone who doesn’t agree with her for any reason, she invades other people’s minds without a second thought, and even while knowing it’s wrong continues to do it for the pettiest of reasons. As far as I can tell, her eventual fate is the greatest boon that Randland gets, aside from not succumbing to evil incarnate. Having her in charge of a newly rejuvenated group of people capable of wielding magical WMDs would have been a bigger disaster than Elaida, because they share a lot in common.
@38
Bravo.
Lost of hostility towards poor little Eggy.
Not that she isn’t irritating. She is. She’s from Two Rivers after all. I agree one hundred percent about the dream invading but don’t forget that Eggy is being trained by a group who are themselves incredibly casual about poking into people’s heads. She lies and sneaks around behind her teacher’s backs but in the end she confesses everything and accepts her punishment. Eggy doesn’t go looking to become Amyrlin it’s literally plopped on her with little or no notice and it’s done while her head’s still spinning. Then she discovers that everybody around her plans to pull her strings like a puppet. Of course resists that. And it’s not like any of these people are acting out of the best interests of the Tower or the world.
Egwene mostly follows the Aes Sedai “common sense” that they know best what everybody elses lifes should be like and what they should do. Nynaeve is even worse in this but basically all Aes Sedai have no respect for the free will of other people.
I’m reminded of the Dark One’s dictionary entry for Aes Sedai. “Old tongue for busybodies.”
I don’t think Egwene is particularly better or worse than most of the main cast. Everyone in these books lacks self awareness, communicates poorly and infrequently, and is just generally a dummy doing their best. I think Egwene comes off worse not only because she’s an ambitious woman, but also because she does not have a destiny forcing her hand like the ta’veren bros do.
@@@@@ 42,
So very true!
I would strongly disagree with Nynaeve having no respect for other people’s free will. Nynaeve usually comes down on the side of free will as a principle, not just for people she likes. That’s why she’s indignant when she hears about Rand ordering Moiraine around, despite not changing her stance on Moiraine personally and also recognizing turnabout is fair play. She simply does not respect the freedom to be stupid, for her definition of stupid. Even when making her characteristic comment about other people not seeing as clearly as she does and thus making stupid rules, she is questioning an apparent restriction of a kinswoman’s freedom. Her reaction to Maseema is, aside from chagrin at one of her young friends being made into an object of worship and being put off by his fanaticism, incredulity at the level of control he exerts over people’s lives and wondering how or why people put up with it. Nynaeve might have opinions about what the right course of action is, but she does actually respect people’s right to make their own choices. As per example with Maseema: she does not think much of alcoholic indulgence, but she recognizes that people like to drink and sees Maseema’s Prohibition decree as a violation of freedoms, rather than a moral good of cutting down on behavior of which she disapproves.